Craps Buy Bets Payout

Craps Buy Bet Payout
Craps Lay Bets Payout

steve5k

I was looking through the Wizard's website on the craps odds and payouts, and need some clarification on the buy bet section. I see the 2 following lines for buying the 6 or 8:
Buy 6 & 8 pays 23 to 21, when the commission is always paid.
Buy 6 & 8 pays 23 to 20, when the commission is paid on a win only.
When the commission is always paid, isn't that why the bet =$21? $20 for the bet + $1 up front for the commission?
If so, shouldn't the win amount be $24? Shouldn't it pay 24 to 21?
I'm wondering because that's what I think when I see the 2nd line, and it seems to have a $20 bet with a $23 payout ($24 for the actual payout less the $1 commission charged when the bet wins).
What am I missing?
Edit: the same applies for the 5 & 9, and 4 & 10 buy bets

The Other Craps Bets. From looking at an online craps table, it is clear that there are several others bets to potentially place, and these are as follows:. Odds bet: this is combined with pass/don’t pass or come/don’t come in order to enhance the odds for your existing bet. The 4 and 10 pay 9-5, true odds 10-5, yielding a house edge of 6.66%. The 5 and 9 pay 7-5, true odds are 7.5-5 (house edge 4%). The 6 and 8 pay 7-6, true odds are 6-5 (house edge 1.51%. Player pays 5% 'vigorish' to get true odds on all numbers. Only the 4 and 10 make buy bets worthwhile. They reduce the house edge to 4.76%. Craps is a fast paced game. The dealer won't wait for you to count out your bets if you don't have them already arranged. In other words, have $1, $2, $4, $8, $16 and so forth ready to go at all times. You are betting against the person rolling the dice. You win a Buy 4 / Buy 10 bet when a 4 or 10 combination is rolled before a 7. In theory, the house edge should be zero because your odds of winning and the payout are both 2:1. But casinos take a 5% commission out of every bet you make, putting the house edge at 4.76%.

wudged

With vig up front, it costs you $21 when you lose. When you win, you initially put in $21 and you are returned $24 (win) + $20 (bet) = $44, for a net of $23.

Ahigh

I'm only familiar with Las Vegas, but for what it's worth, the only thing you ever buy around here is a four or a ten. I've (very rarely) seen buys on the 5 and 9, but the other buy bets (except for 'SHOOT TO WIN' aka 'bubble craps') are very rare here.

FleaStiff

I would agree that quote is the practical, real-world advice. Don't Buy anything but the 4 0R 10, if possible avoid paying a commission up front, but remember its likely to be charged when you win.

For the math involved, sure go to a craps machine, but at a real world table with live dealers, they will probably tell you its better for you to Buy the 4 and 10 and to PLACE the 5 and 9 as well as the 6 and 8. If they don't tell you this its probably a fast table.

steve5k

OK, so is the website wrong, then? Similar payouts are listed for the 4 and 10, so lets look at those...
It says buying the 4 and 10, when vig has to be paid up front, will pay 39 to 21;
and when buying the 4 & 10 with vig paid only when it wins is 39 to 20.
I believe the 2nd one, pays 39 to 20 when vig paid on a win, but the first line looks to me like it should be 40 to 21? $1 vig paid up front then 2:1 when it wins. Should it be 40:21 or 39:21?
P.S. Believe me, the only numbers I would buy are the 4 and 10, but I'm just looking at the math on a chart from a website, and it just looks like something is off. It's about 2/3 of the way down on: wizardofodds.com/games/craps/

Doc

For a $20 buy bet on the 4/10, vig paid only on the win, you are only putting $20 at risk. Therefore, the payout must be “to 20”. If it wins, you are paid $40 less the $1 vig, or “39 to 20.”
If the vig is paid up front, you have put $21 at risk, so the payout is “to 21.” If it wins, you are paid $40 on the $20 you had on the felt, but you must deduct that $1 you paid up front. You won a net $39 (just as in the paragraph above), but in this case it was “39 to 21.”
Ratio of the net win on a win to the total loss if you had lost.

Craps Buy Bet Payout

$10 buy on 4. $1 up front (so bet is $11). Payout is $20. Since they're keeping the bet up, they charge you another $1 (pay up front for next roll).

mustangsally

If the vig is paid up front, you have put $21 at risk, so the payout is “to 21.” If it wins, you are paid $40 on the $20 you had on the felt, but you must deduct that $1 you paid up front.

This only applies if one is trying to calculate the ev or house edge of the bet
The Wizard's table says
PAYS

Quote: Doc

Ratio of the net win on a win to the total loss if you had lost.

sure, only useful if computing the ev or the house edge
But for PAYS, I also agree the bet PAYS 40 to 21.
In my opinion here, JB and / or the Wizard have attempted to simplify this as a one fits all value.
(This was also done in the Craps Games V2)
It does not in my opinion
sure, here is my proof
B = Bet (NOT total $ given to the Dealer)
first example
The *PAYS* on a winning Hard 6
9 to 1
or
9*B to 1*B (divide both sides of *to* by B and get 9*1 to 1*1 or 9 to 1)

Craps Lay Bets Payout

The *PAYS* on a winning Buy 4 vig paid up front (probably the most common found on this planet Earth)
pays 2*B duh

$ given to dealer = B + (B*.05) remember for this $20 Buy 4 fits all example
2*B to B + (B*.05)
now (B*.05) = B/20
(B*(5/100))
2*B to B + B/20
multiply each term by 20
2*B*20 to 20*B + (B/20)*20 =
40B to 20B +B =
40B to 21B
and
divide both side by B (see the first example)
40 to 21
so also
40/21 to 1
still this $20 fits all example

more work could be done on this to make the Wizard of Odds Buy Bets the LAST words on Buy bets :)
just my opinions
Sally

98Clubs

The problem I see here is that responses tend to 'Chain' the event. $21 on the 4 pays $40, the $1 is taken from the $21. The return is 60 for 21. When one loses this bet there are two outcomes;
A.) The entire $21 is forfeit (standard commission rule)
B.) The $20 bet is lost, with the $1 commission returned (Commission when you win)
When in outcome A the risk is $21 and the return is zero for $21.
When in outcome B the risk is $20 and the return is $1 for $21.

rudeboy99

This is how the 'buy behind' works on either the 6 or 8. The player tosses in a $25 chip or any multiples therein. The base dealer sets up a $24 be behind the number the player has chosen and places a 'lammer' on top of the bet that says 'LAY' and $1 goes to the house to pay the 'vig'. This way the 'sky' can ascertain the exact type of wager it is at a glance. If the shooter 7's out before the target number is rolled, the base dealer pays out $20 for every $24 bet and the payoff and the original $24 are returned to the player. So if you're going to buy behind or lay the 6 or 8 do it in units of $25.

Craps is found in all Las Vegas casinos that have more than a handful of table games. The rules are generally the same from one casino to another except for the odds permitted online bets and whether the Field pays double or triple on 12.

Playing Craps at Online Casinos
If you are ready to start playing craps but are not currently in Las Vegas, we can show you some of the Top Rated Online Casinos where you can start playing craps for real money.

Las Vegas Craps Minimum Bets

Las Vegas craps minimum bets range from $1 to $50. Here is a list of all Las Vegas casinos that spread craps with its minimum bet. These minimum bets were recorded on weekdays. Higher minimum bets may be found during peak hours.

$1 Craps	Club Fortune Jokers Wild
$2 Craps	Arizona Charlie’s Boulder Jerry’s Nugget
$3 Craps	Fiesta Rancho Fremont Sam’s Town
$5 Craps	Plaza (Crapsless and traditional game) 4 Queens Aliante Casino Arizona Charlie’s Decatur Bally’s Binion’s Boulder Station California Cannery Downtown Grand El Cortez Ellis Island Fiesta Rancho Gold Coast Golden Nugget Green Valley Ranch M Resort Main Street Station Orleans Palace Station Rampart Santa Fe Station Silver 7’s Silverton South Point Suncoast Texas Station The D Tuscany Westgate
$10 Craps	Bellagio Circus Circus Encore Excalibur Hard Rock Harrah’s Red Rock Park MGM Casino Sahara Las Vegas Treasure Island Wynn

Las Vegas Craps Odds

Most craps tables on the Las Vegas Strip offer 3/4/5 times odds. This means that a player can wager three times the flat bet on a 4 and 10, four times on a five and 9, and five times on a six and eight. The maximum win with odds on any of these numbers equals six times the flat bet. A notable exception is The Cromwell, where players may take odds for up to 100 times the original wager.

Downtown Las Vegas and the locals market tend to spread 10 times odds. There are some exceptions. Below is a list of each odds grouping with the amount permitted by each house.

100x Craps Odds	The Cromwell
20x Craps Odds	Main Street Station Sam’s Town
10x Craps Odds	Aliante Casino Arizona Charlie’s Boulder Cannery Boulder Station Eastside Cannery El Cortez Ellis Island Fiesta Henderson Fiesta Rancho Golden Gate Green Valley Ranch Jokers Wild Palace Station Plaza (craps only, not crapsless, which is 2x) Rampart Red Rock Santa Fe Station Silverton Stratosphere (crapsless and traditional) Suncoast Texas Station The D
5x Craps Odds	4 Queens Arizona Charlie’s Decatur Binion’s Downtown Grand
3-4-5x Craps Odds	Aria Bally’s Bellagio Caesars Palace Casino Royale Club Fortune Cosmopolitan Encore Excalibur Flamingo Gold Coast Golden Nugget Hard Rock Harrah’s OYO Linq Luxor M Resort Mandalay Bay MGM Grand Mirage Park MGM Casino New York New York Orleans O’Sheas Palms Paris Planet Hollywood Rio Silver 7’s Treasure Island Tropicana Tuscany Venetian Wynn
2x Craps Odds	Plaza (Crapsless table) Railroad Pass South Point

There are also alternatives to playing Craps for real money if you are not in Las Vegas. Check out our live casino page to find out more about playing craps online.

Complete Las Vegas Craps Survey 2019

Casino	Game	Min Bet	Max Bet	# of Tables	Odds	Field 12	Video
Plaza	Crapless Craps	5	1000	1	2 x	Triple	No
Stratosphere	Crapless Craps	10	2000	1	10 x	Double	No
Stratosphere	Craps	10	2000	2	10 x	Double	No
4 Queens	Craps	5	500	2	5 x	Double	No
Aliante Casino	Craps	5	1000	3	10 x	Triple	No
Aria	Craps	25	5000	8	3-4-5 x	Triple	Yes
Arizona Charlie’s Boulder	Craps	2	1000	1	10 x	Triple	No
Arizona Charlie’s Decatur	Craps	5	500	1	5 x	Triple	No
Bally’s	Craps	5	3000	4	3-4-5 x	Double	Yes
Bally’s	Craps	15	5000	1	3-4-5 x	Double	No
Bellagio	Craps	10	5000	1	3-4-5 x	Triple	Yes
Bellagio	Craps	25	5000	8	3-4-5 x	Triple	Yes
Binion’s	Craps	5	500	3	5 x	Double	No
Binion’s	Craps	3	200	1	2 x	Double	Yes
Boulder Station	Craps	5	2000	3	10 x	Double	No
Caesars Palace	Craps	25	5000	1	3-4-5 x	Triple	No
Caesars Palace	Craps	50	5000	5	3-4-5 x	Triple	Yes
Caesars Palace	Craps	200	5000	1	3-4-5 x	Triple	No
California	Craps	5	1000	4	2 x	Triple	No
Cannery	Craps	5	1000	2	10 x	Triple	No
Casino Royale	Craps	10	1000	1	3-4-5 x	Double	No
Circus Circus	Craps	10	1000	2	2 x	Triple	No
Club Fortune	Craps	1	100	1	3-4-5 x	Triple	No
Cosmopolitan	Craps	25	5000	6	3-4-5 x	Triple	No
Cosmopolitan	Craps	15	5000	1	3-4-5 x	Triple	Yes
Cromwell	Craps	25	5000	4	100 x	Double	Yes
Downtown Grand	Craps	5	1000	2	5 x	Triple	No
Eastside Cannery	Craps	3	500	1	10 x	Triple	No
El Cortez	Craps	5	1000	2	10 x	Triple	No
Ellis Island	Craps	5	300	1	10 x	Double	No
Encore	Craps	10	5000	5	3-4-5 x	Triple	No
Excalibur	Craps	10	3000	4	3-4-5 x	Triple	Yes
Fiesta Rancho	Craps	3	500	1	10 x	Double	No
Fiesta Rancho	Craps	5	500	1	10 x	Double	No
Fiesta Henderson	Craps	3	1000	1	10 x	Double	No
Flamingo	Craps	15	5000	1	3-4-5 x	Double	No
Flamingo	Craps	25	5000	4	3-4-5 x	Double	Yes
Flamingo	Craps	100	5000	1	3-4-5 x	Double	Yes
Fremont	Craps	5	1000	4	2 x	Triple	No
Fremont	Craps	5	3000	1	2 x	Triple	No
Gold Coast	Craps	5	1000	3	3-4-5 x	Triple	No
Golden Gate	Craps	5	2500	2	10 x	Triple	No
Golden Nugget	Craps	5	5000	5	3-4-5 x	Triple	No
Golden Nugget (Pool)	Craps	10	5000	1	2 x	Double	Yes
Green Valley Ranch	Craps	5	5000	4	10 x	Double	No
Hard Rock	Craps	10	3000	4	3-4-5 x	Double	No
Hard Rock	Craps	15	3000	1	3-4-5 x	Double	No
Harrah’s	Craps	15	5000	3	3-4-5 x	Double	Yes
Harrah’s	Craps	25	5000	4	3-4-5 x	Double	No
OYO	Craps	10	1000	1	3-4-5 x	Double	Yes
Joker’s Wild	Craps	1	500	1	10 x	Triple	No
Linq	Craps	15	5000	6	3-4-5 x	Double	Yes
Luxor	Craps	15	3000	5	3-4-5 x	Triple	No
M Resort	Craps	5	3000	3	5 x	Double/Triple	No
Main Street Station	Craps	5	1000	3	20 x	Triple	No
Mandalay Bay	Craps	15	5000	7	3-4-5 x	Triple	No
Mandalay Bay	Craps	25	5000	1	3-4-5 x	Triple	No
MGM Grand	Craps	10	5000	1	3-4-5 x	Triple	No
MGM Grand	Craps	25	5000	6	3-4-5 x	Triple	Yes
MGM Grand	Craps	50	5000	1	3-4-5 x	Triple	No
Mirage	Craps	25	5000	6	3-4-5 x	Triple	Yes
NYNY	Craps	15	3000	3	3-4-5 x	Triple	No
NYNY	Craps	25	3000	1	3-4-5 x	Triple	Yes
Orleans	Craps	5	2000	6	3-4-5 x	Triple	No
O’Sheas	Craps	15	5000	1	3-4-5 x	Double	No
Palace Station	Craps	5	3000	3	10 x	Double	No
Palazzo	Craps	25	5000	5	2 x	Triple	No
Palazzo	Craps	50	5000	3	2 x	Triple	No
Palms	Craps	10	5000	3	3-4-5 x	Double	Yes
Paris	Craps	15	5000	6	3-4-5 x	Double	Yes
Park MGM Casino	Craps	10	3000	5	3-4-5 x	Triple	No
Planet Hollywood	Craps	10	5000	6	3-4-5 x	Double	Yes
Plaza	Craps	5	1000	2	10 x	Triple	No
Railroad Pass	Craps	3	500	1	3-4-5 x	Triple	No
Rampart	Craps	5	1000	2	10 x	Double	No
Red Rock	Craps	10	5000	5	10 x	Double	No
Rio	Craps	10	5000	4	3-4-5 x	Double	Yes
Sam’s Town	Craps	3	1000	4	20 x	Triple	No
Santa Fe Station	Craps	5	1000	3	10 x	Double	No
Silver 7’s	Craps	5	500	1	3-4-5 x	Double	No
Silverton	Craps	5	1000	2	10 x	Triple	Yes
Sahara Las Vegas	Craps	10	3000	3	3-4-5 x	Double	No
South Point	Craps	5	2000	2	2 x	Triple	No
South Point	Craps	10	2000	2	2 x	Triple	No
South Point	Craps	15	2000	1	2 x	Triple	No
South Point	Craps	25	2000	1	2 x	Triple	No
Stratosphere	Craps	5	1000	2	10 x	Double	No
Suncoast	Craps	5	2000	3	10 x	Triple	No
Texas Station	Craps	5	1000	3	10 x	Double	No
The D	Craps	5	5000	2	10 x	Triple	No
Treasure Island	Craps	10	2000	4	3-4-5 x	Triple	No
Treasure Island	Craps	1	100	1	2 x	Double	Yes
Tropicana	Craps	15	3000	2	3-4-5 x	Double	No
Tuscany	Craps	5	500	1	3-4-5 x	Double	No
Venetian	Craps	25	5000	5	2 x	Triple	Yes
Venetian	Craps	50	5000	3	2 x	Triple	Yes
Westgate	Craps	5	2000	3	3-4-5 x	Double	No
Wynn	Craps	10	5000	7	3-4-5 x	Triple	No
Wynn	Craps	25	5000	1	3-4-5 x	Triple	No
Wynn	Craps	100	10000	1	3-4-5 x	Triple	No